Wednesday, March 01, 2006

Screen Layout

We have now an image showing how a storytron screen layout could possibly look like. You can find it inside the storytron page in the overview section, or just by clicking here.


Blogger Patrick Dugan said...

I think its a good start. It seems like a shoulder component to the models would add a lot of feedback bandwidth while blending in with the screen, demeanor can convey a lot about emotional states.

Also, I've been semi-convinced for a while now that some form of presenational text is a requisite for this to be a commercial technology. The more smoothly the user can interpret whats going on, the more immersive and well-paced playing a storyworld will be. I think Deikto's strength is that it guides the user to form an intentive thought. Representing the computer's reaction is not Deikto's strength.

Its possible to automate something like that, but I think in the near term, Swat should be appended to include a text editor that matches non-linear styled text to every Deikto combination. Variables for specific actors, stages, props, and combinations thereof could script these to be presented in different ranges of contexts. That might add 20 man hours to a medium sized storyworld, but it'd be worth it in a big way.

If we can do this it'd be possible to put the input off to corner or lower center and have it appear grow more organically instead of in strict grids, which could be a front-end effect. Text could appear over the head. Then the sides would be cleared for representing other Actors on the stage.

9:30 PM  
Blogger Chris Crawford said...

I have experimented with this kind of thing for many years. One early example was "Tinkertoy Text" in Erasmatron 1. It worked OK, but didn't light anybody's fire. It is possible to build such a thing for Deikto; I'll put it on the list of features that aren't absolutely necessary but might be nice.

10:15 PM  
Blogger Patrick Dugan said...

I'm saying we can do it manually in the near term. The lessons that teaches us may suggest methods of automation.

Or I at least, I'm willing to put in the extra work to coat the primary feedback mechanism.

I'm not asking for an extra feature for the Storytron, per se, but for Swat.

11:37 PM  
Anonymous Rafael said...

I've been following the Erasmatron (and now the Storytron) for near three years now, or ever since I asked Chris for some advice on what college I should go to.

...Just giving some background so you all know who I am and where I fit in to all this.

I'd like to pipe in and say that the progress that's been made is very impressive and that I like the direction it's all headed towards. I'm anxious for the alpha and beta releases so that I can start writing storyworlds, and I mean really anxious. Ideas bubbling inside my head an all that.

So far, I haven't had the time to read all the newer documentation as I haven't checked the site in a while and it's 3am so I'm not reading it tonight. From what little I did read, however, I got the impression that there would be some sort of graphical representation of the player's environment and nearby Actors within Storytron, yet the preview that Muppet put up shows a white background.

Obviously, my question amounts to: Am I misunderstanding something or is that preview image still in the early stages?
I never really though there would be very many graphics involved with all this until I read about having the environment and the nearby Actors shown while the Actor who was actively interacting (wow) with the player is shown head-on, so to speak.

Ok so enough rambling, am I confused or is there more coming?

11:35 PM  
Blogger Jonathan Beyrak Lev said...

Hi Rafael! Your background sounds very similar to mine.

As for your question, yes, that mockup image is in ultra pre-early stages. The plans aren't for any kind of realistic display a la computer games - apart from the two Deikto displays and the Actor you're interacting with, there will probably be a small icon representing the Stage you're in and several small portraits of the other Actors in this Stage. This is all tentative.

6:09 AM  
Anonymous aevarsson said...

I am also excited by the possibilities of creating storyworlds.What kind of skills are required to write storyworlds with Deikto? Is it enough to have a good imagination, or an idea for a storyworld?

6:44 AM  
Blogger Chris Crawford said...

The most important skill is the ability to think in algorithmic terms. I'll give you an example of the scripting language at work:


This means: React to this event if you are the DirObject. Now, here's a particularly hairy example:

bigger of:
bigger of:
bigger of:
bigger of:
bigger of:
UP2Honest of:
UP2Good of:
UP2Dominating of:
UP2Smart of:
UP2Attractive of:
UP2CustomTrait of:

Now, this is particularly difficult to read because it lacks the tiny lines and icons on the program display that help you eye organize it. And this is one of the worst you'll ever see. Basically, the terms are:

You: the Actor performing the calculation
CandidateActor: the Actor being considered for the sentence position "ActorDescribed".
UP2XXX: the uncertainty of knowledge of the Actor's personality trait. In other words, UP2Smart is the uncertainty that You has for the Smart value of CandidateActor.

So what this big expression says is that the desirability of using CandidateActor for ActorDescribed is equal to the biggest uncertainty You has for any of CandidateActor's traits.

11:24 AM  
Blogger Chris Crawford said...

Arg!! The blog removed the spacings that I included! That latter expression is almost unreadable. I'll have to post a jpg somewhere showing what it actually looks like.

11:25 AM  
Blogger Chris Crawford said...

OK, I have just posted some screen shots that show the two scripts much more clearly. You can find them at:

11:40 AM  
Blogger Jonathan Beyrak Lev said...

I want to expand a little on this issue. First of all, don't think that understanding the above Script expressions is a sort of aptitude test for storybuilding - Script mostly requires skill and context to understand, which will be provided by the reference materials and written course I'm working on. This written course will be aimed at non-techies with artistic tendencies, and it will make learning Script and Storytronics very easy.

But there's one thing we can't teach you - the willingness to express your artistic ideas with math. If you want to be a storybuilder, you'll have to do lots math, and you'll have to be passionate about it. To some, that may sound impossible, but I want to share with you a small example of how beautiful, in the artistic sense, math can be.

Suppose that Rick sees Jeff do something to Mo. Further suppose that this something can be either very nice or very nasty, and that Rick likes Mo. We can safely say that Rick will like Jeff if he does something nice to Mo, but hate him if he does something nasty. The mathematical formula for this would be:

(Nice = 1, Nasty = -1)
Rick's opinion of Jeff =
Ricks' opinion of Mo (=1)
Niceness/Nastiness of deed

This formula would also be true if the niceness/nastiness wasn't all that extreme, but somewhere in between the two poles. It would be true if Rick hated Mo instead of liking him. In other words, it expresses a general truth about human beings - that they like those who do well to those they like etc. - in a tiny, elegant algorithm.

This is the art behind Storytronics - if you think you could create such formulations of human truths using maths, and if you think you could be passionate about them, storybuilding is for you.

2:16 PM  
Anonymous rafael said...

Ok, I have ZERO knowledge of the internal workings of Swat (and I believe the code here presented is for Swat) but would it be possible to condense such a request to remove redundancies?

In other words, to have something like:

---bigger of:
-----UP2Honest && UP2Good && UP2Dominating && UP2Smart && UP2SAttractive && UP2CustomTrait of:

Something like this would check the uncertainty value of all P2 values joined with "&&" that You has towards CandidateActor. Obviously, this is using only one CandidateActor. If Chris's example is concidering multiple CandidateActors, then nevermind.

2:31 PM  
Anonymous rafael said...

One of my favorite Crawford quotes:

"Technology serves art ~ for those artists willing to learn"

2:36 PM  
Blogger Jonathan Beyrak Lev said...

Rafael, yes, this Script is for Swat, and yes, it's used to consider multiple candidate Actors, but since CandidateActor is a variable, your suggested scheme should work (it wouldn't work if one of the joined values wasn't defined for You, CandidateActor).

The reason we're using this "redundant" syntax is that Script is meant for people who have no prior experience with programming and the like. That means we're doing things in a way that's easier for beginners to understand and master, even if it creates some weaknesses that would bother experienced programmers.

The best example of this is the Scripting input scheme. It doesn't use any text input - everything is done using point-and-click menus and inverse parsing. Essentially, that means we get ZERO syntx errors, and we eliminate the need to remember the names and syntax of expressions.

6:17 AM  
Blogger Jonathan Beyrak Lev said...

Oops! Rafael, obviously, when you said "multiple CandidateActors" you meant it considers multiple candidates at the same time. It doesn't, but if it did, as you said, your scheme wouldn't work.

10:53 AM  
Blogger Patrick Dugan said...

Hey, I appreciate what's been said in this thread, but my original point wasn't addressed.

We can set up a thing in Swat where text is matched to Deikto combinations, with possible variations based on Actors, Stages, Props, ect.

Example, Fate - Kill - Actor A could be "Actor A dies" which is general enough to apply for all instances and is a lot of easier to read than Deikto. Or you could do it for specific stages, so if someone dies at a Volcano stage it could read "Actor A falls into the molten lava, screaming as their tissues catch fire and dissolve." Or if some actor has a heart problem, their death could read text about their heart attack, or maybe someone shoots them, so that prop variable causes text regarding their death.

Writers like to write, and letting them map text outputs to Deikto will be the most enjoyable part of storybuilding for us. It'll be easy to implement in Swat as well, and make the user interaction much cleaner. You cannot afford to not have this basic functionality.

11:58 AM  
Blogger Jonathan Beyrak Lev said...

Patrick, sorry for not addressing your point.

I think we would be better off not using the scheme you're suggesting, for several reasons:

1. The players will have high expectations for literary quality. We can't provide them with that, because a good quality literary text is an interdependant system of expressions where every word is carefully selected to work in accordance with all the others. Since we can't predict which sentences will follow which, there's no practical way to create that, and anyway our text will be highly repetitive, unless we introduce random variations, which would accentuate the previsously metnioned issue.

2. Any text used to drape Deikto will create ambiguity as to the Deikto expression hiding underneath. This could lead to misunderstandings. It could also make it harder for the player to learn how to speak Deikto if everybody else speaks English. And since the player's input must be in Deikto, it could make Deikto's un-literary feel stand out and make the player feel like a neanderthal walking around in Oxford.

3. Writing "tinkertoy text" isn't like literary writing. In literature you're trying to create the most expressive and convincing text possible, but in tinkertoy you're just trying to create text that's concise and clear while not being boring - even that is a tall order when you don't know which sentence will follow which. And once you've got it right, it's time to re-phrase it in several different points of view so that it can be delivered to the player in different ways, depending on whether s/he's the Subject, Direct Object, a bystander, just hearing about it after the fact and so on. It's a Syzyphusian job, really, and I'm glad I don't have to do it anymore, as I had to in Erasmatron1. I doubt writing tinkertoy text would be the most enjoyable part for anyone - as I mentioned above, the most artistically significant part of Storytronics is creating dramatic algorithms. That's where the real fun is.

1:38 PM  
Blogger Patrick Dugan said...

You make good points, but I'm not convinced that a direct mapping of "mere text" would be problematic.

1. I'm fairly comfortable with game design and procedurally connected symbology and expressions, as am I pretty experienced with linear creative writing. I think good storybuilder's will need this sort of bi-cultural background, and I'm personally confident that I could write text which is useful, conducive in representation to the simulation of the inclination formulae, and in that sense both technical and literary. Good non-linear writing of this sort can stand on its own in a variety of modular recombinations, and because Storytron has a tight design, the possible recombinations are finite and in some cases easy to infer. Many of the most interesting bits will only happen once, such as deaths or deals which are crucial causal junctures. Its up to the storybuilder's discretion in crafting the text as being demure, almost technical writing, or a creative vynette.

2. Good technical/non-fiction writing skills will make the sematic conveyance a sure thing. You are correct about the asymettry, this is a real problem, but its one that can be approached via playtesting. I'd like to try and text drape on my first storyworld and have people play a textualized and raw Deikto version in the fall, and we can glean data on this issue that way.

3. If by "tinkertoy text" you mean non-linear writing styles, then yes it isn't like literary writing. If you mean automated text generation, then realms of computer science and design come into play, and its even further. I'm guessing you mean text mapping to Deikto, if so I think the problem of re-phrasing by perspective can be lessoned with the dev GUI that does a good job of making relevant roles clear. The average Deikto input would have just one, simple, almost technical text mapping designed to be repeatable, about 30% would have several analogues by role, Actor, Prop and Stage, and maybe 10% would be one-shot, big pay-off text intended to be more literary. The 30% would comprise much of the dialogue, which is essential to characterization to matter what medium you're in. I'm thinking of an interface which shows a search tree, by verb, of possible Deikto combinations, with a flag indicating text has been written near each, and a text field; actors and props are included in the possible combinations, so only stage, role and flag data would have to be included in the GUI window. Since these things are limited by verb, I think there are few enough variations as to make it a do-able job, and maybe less of a labor than with Etron 1 tinkertext, which sounds like more procedural script content, instead of direct writting. Most writers can crank out text faster than reaction scripts, as this comment might attest.

I'm with you on the formulas being the real artistic fulcrum, however, but I think we should take seriously what the Facade guys were saying at the last Phront, about needing multiple layers of authorship.

3:55 PM  
Blogger Patrick Dugan said...

I should note before we continue that this probably warrants another post. You're a very intelligent guy Jon, and I'd like to hear your further thoughts on this, but I'd also like it if Laura piped in, as she's got more creative writing experience than either of us.

3:58 PM  
Blogger Chris Crawford said...

I agree with Jonathan's points completely. We tried this once with Tinkertoy text in Erasmatron 1, and the results were so disappointing that we threw it out of Erasmatron 2. I'll add a fourth point: writing good combinatorial text like this requires a kind of programming, and the effort required to do it well becomes quite burdensome.

2:36 PM  
Anonymous aevarsson said...

I am interested in knowing more about expressing ideas with math. Can dramtic algorithms be used to create story systems? An example could be creating a system that would make the computer actors compete with each other within a storyworld.

4:02 AM  
Blogger Jonathan Beyrak Lev said...

Aevarsson, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "story systems". Regarding the example you gave, yes, that can be done fairly easily with Storytronics. It would require three kinds of creative efforts: defining the personality profiles for the Actors who are to compete with each other, creating a Verbweb that encourages competitive behavior, and, most importantly, creating the necessary dramatic algorithms.

There are several places where these algorithms are used (you might want to refer to the "Dramatic Principles and Components" article in the Storyworld section of the overview): In Roles, to define which Actors can assume the Role, and to define what emotional reactions these Actors will experience; In Options, to select the DirObject and make other such choices; and, most imprtantly, Inclinations are in fact each a dramatic algorithm.

Thus, dramtic algorithms allow you to define who can react to which storyworld occurence, what emotional reaction they will have, and which behaviors they will choose depending on their personalities. In other words, dramatic algorithms are your way to tell the Actors how to behave, and math is such a rich language that you can get almost any imaginable behavior using the proper algorithm. Finding these proper algorithms is an art, not a science, and like any art it's 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration. And it's very rewarding.

8:21 AM  
Blogger LauraJMixon said...

Patrick, before I tried out the technology, my reaction was the same as yours. Now I have to agree with Jonathan. Anything we do to make it seem like "real English" will ring false to the player, who will very quickly (a) learn to look through the words to the underlying real communication, and (b) feel as if we are trying to deceive him into thinking it is real English, when its functional communication is not.

This is all an excellent discussion, however. I'm enjoying reading everyone's analyses and comments.


8:25 PM  
Blogger Patrick Dugan said...

Yes, I spoke with Craig Perko ( about this topic, and after some discussion he concluded that Diekto was parsable enough that it'd be better to go raw. So yes, you were right Jon, Chris, Laura.

However, you all should be aware of a project called Utopia, developed by an argentinian named Santiago Siri, which has multiple layers of authorship, the lowest being clusters of text dialogues. I showed a demo to Perko along-side Deikto, and we concluded that Storytron gets half of the problem right, and Utopia gets the other half, and that a second generation platform would synthesize the strengths of the two with an inference engine.

Check it out at GDC's experimental gameplay workshop.

2:29 PM  
Blogger Designer Christian said...

Ok, im a graphic design student, and i want to suggest something very small: never use pure white as background on a monitor, its the equivalent of staring at the sun or a light bulb, imagine... use gray instead, it will be more confortable to look at...
PS: i will someday translate chirs crawford book (the older one, first one) to spanish (i asked him years ago and said yes, but long story, all translated chapters deleted, many days crying, forgot about project, blablbalbalba), if someone wants to help me, contact me.

7:10 PM  
Blogger Dave Walker said...

I can't resist putting in my two cents here. First, if you consider the primary job of Deikto to allow a conversation between the reader and the actors, then you want to keep the "language" the same. Not only does this heighten the feeling of having a conversation, but--in our case--it allows the reader to more quickly accept Deikto as a real language and to feel comfortable about using it.

Deikto also presents an unprecedented opportunity to reach non-English readers. Converting from English Deikto to Japanese, Spanish, or any other written language is a simple matter of replacing the English Deikto words with the appropriate words/symbols from another language. Since the grammer remains unchanged in all cases, that simple one for one replacement could allow every storyworld to be experienced by any reader.

Because of the many complex ways the Storytron word elements (verbs, actors, props, stages, etc) can be combined, generating specific text for each combination would be a very daunting task. Even assuming that you would only need to create text patterns with replacement(for example, "subject" would be replaced by the subject of the sentence and you wouldn't need to create a special string of text for every sentence of that pattern with every possible subject), I can't imagine fewer than two or three thousand such patterns--probably a lot more. Assume, with the proper tools, you could create each pattern on average in about 5 minutes. This means the lower limit to create those patterns is 10,000 minutes (about one man-month). Experience tells me that, even if you can create one pattern every 5 minutes, you won't be able to spend 8 hours a day, five days a week doing just this. So, at a minimum, experience tells me this task would add three months to your schedule. It had better add a lot to your storyworld experience to justify this kind of effort. Clearly, we're all--mostly--in agreement that it would not.

What might be useful, however, is the ability to provide a backstory or a "transition" narrative at key points. The way this would work is that--at some key point in the story (such as at the very beginning or when the reader first hears about a key event) the reader is presented with a few paragraphs written in regular english (or translations--which makes multilingual stories much more work). These stories would probably need to allow for some text substitution, but it should be minimal. The reader should also never think of this as part of the ongoing conversation--more of a voice over.

Keep in mind, this isn't a future feature of Storytron, just a idea I floated. I also suggested we not even think about adding this as a future feature until we have at least a year's experience with Storyworld. That experience could tell us it would add nothing or we might realize there is an even better way to accomplish the same thing.

7:08 PM  
Anonymous Rafael said...

Christian, I was just thinking today how there's a huge market for IT books in Spanish since the current offerings are practically useless. After moving to the Carribbean, I've encountered many people who would rather spend years learning English and not pick up an IT book in Spanish (their native language). The current hub for publishing IT books in Spanish is Mexico and they're doing an abyssmal job of it.

Other than general IT, I've met alot of people who have shown an interest in Game Design. All in all, even without the potential (and probable) demand, I would love yto help you translate Chris' book to Spanish.

Email me at That's my junk email address and I'll send you my real one through there once you email me. Call me paranoid, but there're ALOT of bots out there screaning HTML for email adresses.

As far as Deikto and blocks of prose, I think that it would, in fact be daunting. Mostly because of the HUGE amount of possibilities inherent in Deikto.

I that a better goal would be to make Deikto so natural that people will get used to THAT form of dialoge and use prose to describe other things like key events (Actor X gets shot by Actor Z in Stage 1) among others.

Like Dave said though, these are goals that should be placed in the far future, giving everyone enough time to get used to the Storyworld and its nuances.

Everything sounds good in text until you actually try it out and see how it works.

10:04 PM  
Anonymous Paul Eres said...

I haven't read all th comments so I don't know if this has been said, but regarding that screenshot, I suggest highlighting the primary line (the central threat line) in some way, so that people looking at it know it's the primary line.

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